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LaRPS : Legacies Role Play System » Support » Roleplaying Lectures
Guest Lecture: 2011 Oct 23 Victorian Fashion
(4 posts)-
[16:08] Morsmordre Furman: With immersion roleplay, fashion is a vital part of keeping our game fluid and realistic. Thus as most of us already know the right skirt matters, or the right cut of pants matters. With second life it can be hard to find the right flavour of Victorian. In First life I am a historical reenactor, I won't say how many years of experience but just that I found my first corset before puberty. This class will cover the differences between American, London/English, and French fashions for males and females, but I hope to inject some humor and dispell some myths too.
[16:10] Morsmordre Furman: Most of the characters in Legacies are middle to upper class. Even the poor however, wear the same basic sort of clothing. The first guideline of accurate dress is, the richer you are, the more fabric you will wear. Ladies and Gentlemen have an average of five layers of clothing each. Women often have drastically more. Right at the start of 1891 this began to simplify, but if you were poorer you might have last year's bustle size. 91 is a great year for play because it straddles two fashion decades so you have more options than either a later time period or a newer one. Now to get more specific... Lets talk undies. In the folder you got from the box there are two textures, lets start with the ladies wear.
[16:10] Morsmordre Furman: Let me know if you have trouble with this image, you should be able to stretch it across your screen so it becomes readable.
[16:11] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): looks fine to me
[16:11] Morsmordre Furman: Awesome. If everyone else can chime in when ready, this way we compensate for various net speeds
[16:12] Kev Silvansky (keighvin.silvansky): Got it
[16:12] Vincent Szu (harrymason.jameson): Kay
[16:12] Bunny Rofcal (bunny.yakubu): ut's great
[16:15] Morsmordre Furman: Now, I know it seems odd that everyone needs to know about underwear at first but, if you look at the average outfit a woman wore during the day, you can see that a middle class woman is wearing eight layers. This means no mid day nookie, sex, dressing and undressing were art forms, and even if you were poorer you would not want to risk tearing the fragile over dress for a few moments pleasure. A lot of the appearance of sleeves for example, with the thicker cuff, is to protect the clothing so that it survives wear and tear. In the Americas the crinoline or even an under skirt cage was popular for longer due to the extreme climate across the nation. In France, you would have lost the bustle for what is called a natural shape well before 91.
[16:15] Kev Silvansky (keighvin.silvansky): (be right back--have an item that wandered away!)
[16:16] Morsmordre Furman: Hello Erik! If you would please buy a copy of the class notes, we're looking at the ladies underwear guide at the moment. Let me know when that loads for you.
[16:17] Erik Godric: ok
[16:17] Bunny Rofcal (bunny.yakubu): pardon me I need to see to something, I'll try to make it back as soon as I can
[16:17] Bunny Rofcal (bunny.yakubu): Thank you mo
[16:17] Morsmordre Furman: No problem Bunny, if you cannot make it I will do this again
[16:17] Bunny Rofcal (bunny.yakubu): \O/
[16:19] Erik GodricErik Godric sings "Looking at ladies' undies...ah there we are."
[16:19] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom)Ocean giggles
[16:19] Morsmordre Furman: What better way to start a class eh?
[16:19] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): *thumbs up*
[16:20] Morsmordre Furman: The chemise image I provided is a standard every day chemise. The outfit I am wearing is a london 1891 authentic outfit. The bustle is a bit low slung on this dress but its very close. The chemise for a ball gown might be sleeveless in our period or have much thinner sleeves. The drawers would be the same for evening wear though likely a silk. If you look at the types of corsets in the image, the pink would most likely be for a formal occassion or a more wealthy woman. The one in the middle is a corset that could work for a ball but is most likely an every dayc orset while the one at the end is a bit between the two and likely offered more back support. The corsets for 91 offer a more S curve shape to the body, which offered more spinal support. This does lead to atrophe with daily wear... but we are at the start of an era when women were not just allowed to play sports but it was deemed desirable. Any questions thus far?
[16:21] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): none so far
[16:21] Erik Godric: nope
[16:22] Morsmordre Furman: Excellent, in that case lets take a Mythrepresentation break. I have two images I added which may surprise some. Early photoshop. If you can open the file entitled, "The Wasp Waist" let me know when it renders for you.
[16:22] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): gotit
[16:22] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): that is actually kinda funny that touching up has been going on so long
[16:22] Erik Godric: rendered
[16:23] Morsmordre Furman: I did include a caption so that later down the line if you want to look at this image or even talk about it you have the information but this image is not given a specific date in the catalogue, just from the corset and underwear we know its at least 1890 but the image quality indicates it is probably closer to 1895. I find it hilarious Ocean, because so often it seems like its a new trend. This just proves, photographers want women to be aliens and always have.
[16:24] Erik Godric: Women aren't aliens?
[16:24] Morsmordre Furman: Nope! Surely men are. Or at least us cats.
[16:24] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): Hmmm nope, tis the men Erik..... ㋡
[16:25] Erik Godric: oh good
[16:25] Morsmordre Furman: The process to create this image was very expensive. Unlike our methods today, they had to create multiple negatives of the image. By this time it was possible but still difficult. Then they had to take a razor sharp knife, likely a cuticle trimmer or other tiny blade, and begin to cut through the negatives until the shape was right. Even if they did a two phot oprocess to protec the background, which is a photo without moving the camera of the same spot, its twice as expensive plus the man hours. This image is from an old list of fetish photos from the victorian Bondage circuit.
[16:25] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): Glad to know they had bondage back then..
[16:26] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): they totally did
[16:26] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom)Ocean grins
[16:26] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): behind closed doors...
[16:26] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): why i love victorian england
[16:26] Morsmordre Furman: Bondage has been around for a long time, but became very common during the victorian era. It was almost the standard relationship between married couples.
[16:26] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): me too!
[16:27] Morsmordre Furman: Actually this is why a lot of bondage gear is fairly victorian with the standard of the corset or the crop.
[16:27] Erik Godric: mmm nice
[16:27] Morsmordre Furman: Sadly I couldn't find very many images of victorian men in their underwear so we have to go to the Men's dressing guide for the naughty sketch of a man shaving. Also, Astrid can confirm or deny that these longjohns are Sebastion's.
[16:27] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby)Astrid Muircastle grins
[16:28] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): giggles
[16:28] Morsmordre Furman: Please let me know when this image is loaded.
[16:28] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): lol
[16:28] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): loaded
[16:28] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): his are full length and red :3
[16:28] Erik GodricErik Godric sings "Looking at naked men bits...doo de doo...loaded"
[16:29] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom)Ocean likes looking at naked men.....
[16:29] Vincent Szu (harrymason.jameson): k
[16:29] Kev Silvansky (keighvin.silvansky): apologies Mo, a set of kitty ears wandered off around the hub due to yesterday's issue. Did not mean to distract the class.
[16:29] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom)Ocean groans as she remembers these classes go online and she typed that
[16:30] Morsmordre Furman: I could not find any intact images of 1890s male underwear, and my his must be American! *rofls* The main difference in the styles is the cuff at the bottom. After the 70s the drawers became looser and would not gather at the ankles. The gather was mostly to accomodate boots, and lower cut shoe tops were the fashion for most of Europe but especially London
[16:30] Morsmordre Furman: No problem Kev, we are on the Men's dressing guide if you want to let me know when that loaded.
[16:30] Erik Godric: Ocean, Im singing about naked man bits
[16:30] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): That is true Eric, we can be shamed together!
[16:30] Kev Silvansky (keighvin.silvansky): Loaded Mo
[16:30] Vincent Szu (harrymason.jameson): sorry guys I gotta go to bed
[16:31] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): Mo... you should ask him why he's wearing american underwear
[16:31] Morsmordre Furman: Nah you guys are all going to make everyone sad they missed pictures of Victorian underwear and risque photos. Vincent please feel better!
[16:31] Morsmordre Furman: Only if I catch him in his undies.
[16:31] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): Good point Mo, we totally are!
[16:33] Erik Godric: I love the word "waistcoat"
[16:33] Morsmordre Furman: Men's clothing changed very little over the 1880s and 1890s. This standard of dress is for the day time and applies to all social classes. The main concession a peasant may have is not owning a morning coat AND a frock coat. A sack coat is another word for morning coat, until the late 80s, and both were acceptable. A sack coat or frock coat could go outside. A morning coat could not. Now, one essential point here, just as women's ankles were scandelous it was just as horrifying for a man to show himself to a woman without his coat on. The modern suit is derived from this. This means men HAD to wear all seven layers. Even a loosening of the tie was a mortal sin. Any questions thus far?
[16:33] Morsmordre Furman: I prefer it to Vest myself.
[16:34] Kev Silvansky (keighvin.silvansky): Question Mo
[16:34] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby)Astrid Muircastle blinks
[16:34] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): no questions here, and yes I love waistcoats, always have done
[16:34] Morsmordre Furman: Yes Kev?
[16:36] Kev Silvansky (keighvin.silvansky): Isn't it also true that a gentleman..or any man of worth, would be extremely embaressed to find a woman without the proper attire, they would probably immediatley avert their eyes, and offer to let her go to the powder room. If that was not available they would offer most likely, something to cover, or am I mistaken in that?
[16:36] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): or pretend to be embarrased *snickers*
[16:36] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom)Ocean giggles and nods at Astrid
[16:36] Kev Silvansky (keighvin.silvansky): while mentally leering.
[16:37] Morsmordre Furman: Yes and no. It depends on how scandelously dressed she is. While I will go into greater detail in a little bit, a woman in the day time showing her neck, shoulders, bossom, or even at night wearing a short skirt WITHOUT pants would be treated as if nude. They would not suggest she go powder herself. She would simply not exist. She would be likely shunned socially forever. The amount of shunning depends on the amount of impropriety. REmember, at least outwardly Modesty is the most valued personality trait. This is for men and women.
[16:39] Morsmordre Furman: In essence they would look through her. I will say this, I could do an entire class on the differences in clothing prostitutes wore in England versus the US. Even being a person from the US could end up with you deemed a social outcast based on the wrong cut of dress. Clothing is self expression, it is how you are identified and it tells people your monetary value or class.
[16:39] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): mmhmm, all about appearances
[16:40] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom)Ocean sigh "at least ocean has her legs covered outside.."
[16:40] Morsmordre Furman: Very much so. In fact, the finest show of appearance would be a party. Something I plan to replicate in game is a weekly ball. While it would be scandalous for a person to wear the same party dress twice no doubt this will not extend in game. If you could load Evening Wear Ladies please? 3
[16:40] Morsmordre Furman: Ocean I have a special bit about pants I think you will enjoy once we get that far.
[16:41] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom)Ocean grins "thanks"
[16:41] Morsmordre Furman: Absolutely, part of the twisted Victorian moral code has a loophole.
[16:42] Morsmordre Furman: This image, I almost forgot, is a bit off ratio so a tad wider should make the font clearer.
[16:42] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): got
[16:43] Kev Silvansky (keighvin.silvansky): on the phone, but will attempt to listen lol
[16:43] Morsmordre Furman: No problem Kev. Erik let me know when you are ready.
[16:45] Morsmordre Furman: Like Night and Day the victorian morality changed utterly when the sun went down. If there was no party then people would dress for dinner in slightly less formalwear. I do not have an image set for this at this time, but you would have longer sleeves for your dinner dress, and a bit less in the way of sparkle. For both men and women nothing mattered for a dress more than the cut but fabric is almost tied. The nicer the fabric, even if you are less ornamental in jewelry or hair, the better you will be recieved.
[16:46] Erik Godric: ooks sorry. I'm ready
[16:46] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): did they ride pickles?
[16:46] Morsmordre Furman: No problem. Sadly Astrid the only pickle riding was done in the bedroom behind closed doors.
[16:47] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): ratflmao!!!!!
[16:47] Morsmordre Furman: Rumor has it, that Victoria and Santa Claus once rode a pickle together, thus the germanic pickle tradition
[16:47] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): thi is what happens when sebastion is out of town *snickers*
[16:47] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): LOL
[16:47] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): aww poor Astrid
[16:47] Morsmordre Furman: Couldn't resist
[16:48] Morsmordre Furman: As you can see in the images provided the ball gown had a very low cut top, on th eback you would have an even deeper cut most of the time to show off your shoulder blades, though it would be tailored to not show your corset or chemise. The ball gown in London had an almost natural waist a lot sooner than the US but far after france, and while it had a train the bustle was just a bit of padding. The dresses had a shorter front to make dancing easier and a wrist loop for when dancing or walking, so you wouldn't trip on your train. Most ball gowns would have beading that focused on the bodice as a minimum. If could afford it you might be encrusted. Ball gowns should be for London, mostly jewel tones. The exception is purple due to that being a mourning color.
[16:48] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom)Ocean is too innocent to know about germanic pickles
[16:49] Erik Godric: Women do love gerkins
[16:49] Morsmordre Furman: Ocean I was referencing the german tradition of hiding a pickle in the christmas tree. Its a lucky pickle. Santa hides it in your tree and whichever child finds the pickle on Christmas Morning has luck year round. Depending on where in germany, this could be whichever family in the village too. Its a pagan food thing I think but off the top of my head I am uncertain. As far as the actual topic, any questions thus far?
[16:49] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): mmm I love a lot of things....
[16:49] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): ahh I see ty Mor, i learned more than i thought i would today XD
[16:50] Morsmordre Furman: Bahahaha then Iam doing my job well
[16:50] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): and no questions
[16:50] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): a lot of pictures i see shoulders... is that mainly evening wear?
[16:50] Erik Godric: i'm good
[16:51] Morsmordre Furman: The Victorian Era, especially in London is extremely opulent. The fabrics down to the underwear would be the best, but you would also want to accent with your finest jewelry. All of the pictures in this slide are of evening wear. The puffy sleeves and almost minimallistically invisible sleeves competed for top fashion. The puffed sleeves were more American but still had a presence in London. Evening wear is inverting the day time stereotype of covering from the neck down. You want to let them see almost all you have.
[16:52] Morsmordre Furman: For an evening gown one standard measure is you are still modest with a palm width of flesh. Which varies by hand size of course but, the idea is more is more.
[16:52] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): kk
[16:52] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom)Ocean grins "so I only send Ocean out at night then.."
[16:52] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby)Astrid Muircastle whispers... it's always night!
[16:53] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom)Ocean whispers back "thank god"
[16:53] Erik GodricErik Godric ogles ladies' goodies
[16:53] Morsmordre Furman: Accessories mattered both night and day but at night the fan would matter the most. The Victorians had a lot of languages wrapped in various objects but a fan could let you gossip, flirt, make faces at some under dressed peon, or even burp without giving yourself away. For Legos I would suggest rotating between the fashions anyway. Its more a time and a place concept. When working, dress as if a prude and at night let it all hang out.
[16:53] Morsmordre Furman: If we can all switch slides *pushes her glasses up and sounds monotone*Evening Wear Men's.
[16:54] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): snorts "Just need to hold a ruler..."
[16:54] Morsmordre Furman: So AStrid is a naughty school girl
[16:54] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom)Ocean snickers "then she can slap us across the knuckles with it"
[16:54] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby)Astrid Muircastle grins, "Behind closed doors"
[16:54] Morsmordre Furman: Knuckles? Pfft... try the bottom.
[16:55] Erik Godric: Oogles Astrid's goodies
[16:55] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): Ohhh please!
[16:55] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby)Astrid Muircastle wiggles
[16:55] Morsmordre Furman: Both of these images are from exactly 1891 and in London there were some VERY key specifics for a man's evening suit. The Tuxedo was once a brand name, thus that is the term you want. The accessories changed for men even less than ladies but you would break out the nicer watch chain, the diamond tie tack, and the stiffer collar.
[16:56] Morsmordre Furman: In london men wore tail coats, the top hat would most likely have silk that matched your waist coat and the colors wre emostly greys, blacks and whites. Your waist coat would be where you added any color and it should be mostly pastel. The ladies are the peacocks for the most part. Oh and your gloves would be kid leather and white. You would not want to show your hands much. In fact, one of the more seductive rituals of dance would be for the man to kiss a lady's wrist in her button hole, one of the few areas of skin he could actually touch without scandal
[16:57] Morsmordre Furman: Any questions or need of a fan imagining someone's hot breath on your wrist?
[16:57] Dr. Morsmordre FurmanDr. Morsmordre Furman eyes Astrid with a giggle.
[16:57] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): I swear i need to buy a fan!
[16:57] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): ocean needs one.
[16:57] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): she does
[16:57] Dr. Morsmordre FurmanDr. Morsmordre Furman uses her tail to Fan Ocean.
[16:58] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom)Ocean grins and leans closer to Dr Mors.....
[16:58] Erik Godric: actually read a story where a victorian man did nothing more than take his finger and slide it under a lady's glove to touch her palm. Most erotic thing I ever read
[16:58] Morsmordre Furman: At this moment, while I break out the Mythinformation you hve the option of putting together either an evening outfit or a day time outfit, if you want help making sure its at least good enough to the period. If not peak at the file Another Victorian Photo Manip.
[16:59] Morsmordre Furman: I think I read that story too Erik, or I dreamed it while I was being a Victorian school marm on a farm.
[16:59] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): Ohh Eric, I can see why!
[16:59] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby)Astrid Muircastle fans herself wondering when Bastion's getting home...
[16:59] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom)Ocean giggles at Astrid
[16:59] Morsmordre Furman: One of the blessings of Legos is that its always a bit chilly for our characters. I suspect you can see the real reason people fainted from heat, the layers not the corsets.
[17:00] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): but but... astrid doesn't wear bustles! and she has her own source of warmth!
[17:00] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): all very IC reasons. :3
[17:00] Kev Silvansky (keighvin.silvansky): grrs at his internet
[17:00] Morsmordre Furman: Oh one more thing, I included a slide with a bit more information on accessories for you all, so that you have that if you need it while dressing but for the most part that information is included in what we went over already. Astrid... Ihope you wear a bustle... if your butt is THAT BIG... No wonder Bastion left you to ride the pickle!
[17:00] Morsmordre Furman: Welcome back KEv
[17:00] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): wb Kev...
[17:00] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby)Astrid Muircastle blinks
[17:01] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): and giggles at Mors comment on the pickle
[17:01] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): :( I like my butt!
[17:01] K.D. Silvansky K.D. Silvansky chuckles.
[17:01] Morsmordre Furman: The first Mythconception I will jump into is Ocean's Pants... *winks*
[17:01] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): Yay!
[17:01] Morsmordre Furman: Your butt is fine but, you so wear a bustle
[17:01] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): I mean ...umm sure
[17:01] Morsmordre Furman: The Myth: Women never wore pants.This is not true. Women have worn pants depending on their job, or for fashion. Crossdressing parties were very much fashionable in europe in the mid 1800s. A woman would try to match the standards of dress for a man should she crossdress, and after the 1850s she may wear Bloomers. While this may mean underwear now, it meant very large skirt like pants back in the day. Pants began to be seen as a symbol of women's liberation and thus working women, lower class women, and in moments of social correctness, other women would indeed don menswear.
[17:02] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom)Ocean grins and looks at Astrid "I still remember that Pants RP you did with Bastion!"
[17:02] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): giggles
[17:02] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): has it NC'd
[17:03] Morsmordre Furman: For any masquerade ball, woman who broke social norms and there were enough in 91 that there were socially acceptable pants outfits, or even certain styles of ball gown, mostly in Russia but acceptable in London which combined pants and a skirt, think a mix between what most people think of of a Saloon girl and add in some sexy pants for that one or a Loli in pants, a lot of women wore pants and plenty of men wore skirts without any social repercussions. A woman would either go for a clearly costume version or she would just wear a man's suit.
[17:03] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): nice
[17:04] Erik Godric: G!
[17:04] Morsmordre Furman: The scandal depends more on your class. So if your character is rich a woman in pants is more unseemly than if you are poor. A man may try to shame a woman who wears pants. Consider this is the era that birthed the sufferage movement, pants played a part there and the lady in question may speak back.
[17:04] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): Giada, long time no see!!
[17:04] Morsmordre Furman: Any pant questions?
[17:04] Morsmordre Furman: Hi Giada!
[17:04] Giada Bedrosian: Hi everyone. Sorry I'm late
[17:04] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby)Astrid Muircastle jumps off the pickle and runs over to Giada to hug her!
[17:05] Giada Bedrosian: I wanna wear some pants
[17:05] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): Hmm so the fact Ocean wears them under a skirt is more suitable
[17:05] Morsmordre Furman: Well now you can!
[17:05] Giada Bedrosian: woot
[17:05] Morsmordre Furman: Giada there is a box with some class notes and images, if you want to grab it
[17:05] Giada Bedrosian: got it
[17:05] Giada Bedrosian: Erik's been showing me. He's at the desk next to me
[17:05] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): giggles
[17:06] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): oh useful!
[17:06] Morsmordre Furman: Oh so you can tell us if he giggled at the immodest women!
[17:06] Erik Godric: Helpful when your brother has the laptop.
[17:06] Giada Bedrosian: Of course he did
[17:06] Giada Bedrosian: He giggles when you say boobies
[17:06] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): or if he lingered on the men in underwear
[17:06] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): >.>
[17:06] Erik Godric: not wearing underwear
[17:07] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): umm sorry Eric, did you just say you where not wearing underwear?
[17:07] Morsmordre Furman: Another big Mythconception!Tight lacers. We spoke about the fact Bondage and Fetish were at new heights if in "secret" with in the Victorian era and tight lacing is an offshoot of that. Most corset related injury was related to tight lacing. Some of the words to describe a slutty woman though stem from corsets. To be a loose woman is to not wear your corset tight enough. What is tight enough? A corset should feel snug, not move up or down or chaffe but you should be able to breathe in your upper chest. So yes corsets restrict breathing but not that much. Tight lacing does bodily damage but there is no proof of any normal and proper corset wear causing damage in average users. The idea of the 16 inch waist is either victorian photo manips or a mix of how the clothing is made.
[17:07] Erik GodricErik Godric whispers "after class"
[17:08] Morsmordre Furman: Yes yes he did! And yes, I know you are all thinking "Boy the victorian era gets back to sex a lot." Always.
[17:08] Dr. Morsmordre FurmanDr. Morsmordre Furman checks Erik for his drawers. Swoons in shock.
[17:08] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom)Ocean quickly fans Mors and mutters "so there was none?"
[17:09] Morsmordre Furman: Correct... phew... shocking!
[17:09] Erik Godric: what. I washed them
[17:09] Kev Silvansky (keighvin.silvansky): lol.
[17:09] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom)Ocean grins
[17:09] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): Maybe you should do a lecture on Bondage, sex and the victorian era
[17:09] Erik Godric: with a demonstration
[17:09] Erik Godric: oh wait
[17:09] Morsmordre Furman: At this time, I am going to ask if there are any questions and if you think of some later, send them to me in a note card. I can always reply to the thread for this class. We are almost over and went over time by just a tiny bit. I think Ocean I will have to. Late Night Legos...
[17:10] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): yes....good idea, Erik just volunteered
[17:10] Morsmordre Furman: Wishful thinking Erik, it would be BYOD (Bring your own Domme)
[17:10] Erik Godric: shoot
[17:10] Giada Bedrosian: You'd scream like a girl anyways.
[17:10] Erik Godric: You..sister in the goofy hat. Hush
[17:11] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): no questions from me, and if I cant bring my own Dom, I am sure I can grab one from work
[17:11] Morsmordre Furman: That would be amusing... but Fashion questions? Did anyone make an outfit? Most of you I know are actually really good at this but, either way I will perve cam you and tell you where to tweak
[17:11] Morsmordre Furman: Ocean I will run the class by the Sts. I already mentioned that idea to Astrid.
[17:11] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): umm I am still wearing this mornings outfit actually
[17:11] Kev Silvansky (keighvin.silvansky): Question from the peanut gallery over here, if you have time.
[17:11] Morsmordre Furman: We have time Kev
[17:11] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): yeaaaah, i'm not dressed for legos :P
[17:12] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): most def NOT Astrid, but you still look good
[17:12] Morsmordre Furman: Ocean can you stand up a second?
[17:12] Morsmordre Furman: Thankies and Astrid always looks good
[17:13] Morsmordre Furman: This outfit would litrally be great pajamas. The cut is more night gown than not but I think it passes for an evening gown. The only part that is really scandelous would be the cut of your bodice. You ave gloves, its a good color scheme for Legos AND the period, bit more bustle would be accurate but it also over laps the tail end of the Aesthetic movement well. Which I did not go into because its almost completely past our period and would over all be ignored (so I thought. Woops)
[17:14] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom)Ocean grins "thanks... and yes ...she often shows a lot of cleavage...."
[17:14] Kev Silvansky (keighvin.silvansky): After reading all the information you gave Morsmordre, I'm fairly certain my character doesn't fit the idea of the gentleman that I've been rping him as (laugh) Now, I know it's very stylish for men of the time period to wear dark colors or gray, but one thing I was curious about, and this is fashion as well, that I did not see included was hair.
[17:14] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): especially bartending
[17:14] Kev Silvansky (keighvin.silvansky): I'm horribley afraid that my character's hairstyle doens't fit the time period, but I dislike long hair.
[17:15] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): She no longer bartends Astrid lol, she is far to buzy looking after her Regent
[17:15] Erik Godric: it's hard to find good mens' hair sometimes
[17:15] Morsmordre Furman: A quick rundownn of the Aesthetic movement incase anyone here or reading the log does not know (but you can wiki it) is its a movement in art that effected Fashion. The idea was to go to the romantic period which is a mix of medieval and fantasy. So loose fitting clothing, this is also the start of the idea of being Bohemian. In a way, think hippies of the Victorian Era. Hair, good point Kev.
[17:15] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): Yea, I often wonder about my hair too
[17:16] Kev Silvansky (keighvin.silvansky): My question is more what was socially acceptable hair for men? I see a LOT of long haired men around.
[17:16] Morsmordre Furman: I skipped hair because of the challenge on Sl of finding good mens hair, I couldn't find much I would ask anyone to wear but here are the facts. Look at the old hollywood movies of the thirties, like Gone with the wind? Even in London you would want Clark Gable hair. A part and then lightly oiled to create a shine. The shine implies health.
[17:17] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): long hair is more of the gothic aspect too, or character dependant
[17:17] Morsmordre Furman: Long hair is fine too, though that is more American. A carry over from the Civil war was less worry about being well groomed as far as hair LENGTH. Now over all the need for super grooming was still present. Women wore theirhair basically one of two ways. You would pull your hair up into a chignon or twist with curls atop your head or let the curls fall down the back of your head. Straight hair meant of course having a hot iron or tying your hair in rags at night.
[17:18] Morsmordre Furman: There are some variations, for example if you were into the aesthetic movement, you would want straight hair in natural free flow, and a braid is almost always good no kmtter what your historical period. When in doubt, braid your hair.
[17:18] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): noted!
[17:19] Morsmordre Furman: Both styles you wore tonight work Ocean, most up dos work well. For a ball you would consider a more formal style. Again reverse what your every day is. If you wear your hair loose most of the day you would wear it tight at night. Skirt size is a good key too. The bigger the skirt the more confined your hair.
[17:19] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): ahh interesting
[17:20] Morsmordre Furman: Without looking like a stepford man or a ken doll, I have yet to see authentic victorian hair on SL. Most of it looks really creepy, but just make sure it fits your character. Everyone has their own fashion sense, just like in the modern world. There was a bit more freedom to have the only dress like yours but, its still a matter of taste and choice.
[17:20] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): woot I have a fan
[17:20] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): Astrid is somewhee between medieval and gypsy
[17:20] Morsmordre Furman: Wedding fashion is its own class, and I WILL schedule that one soon. I am working on the hand outs for that. Some keys between here and there, if the bride wore white the groom wore black or a dark grey. Yaaay nice fan too! like the lace.
[17:20] Erik Godric: I call mine shaggy poet
[17:20] Kev Silvansky (keighvin.silvansky): Actually I saw a place that had really good updo's and braids for women but not so much good for men. They had some very extravagent updo's.
[17:21] Morsmordre Furman: Women's clothing information and clothing on Sl is always easier to find. I am not quite sure why but for some reason there is a lot more historical documentation. Any other questions? Perhaps if any of us find good men's hair we can post on the forum to share.
[17:22] Kev Silvansky (keighvin.silvansky): Please do. I've been searching. For women, I noticed that Amacci carries a lot of victorian hair updo's, just so it's posted to the forums.
[17:22] Morsmordre Furman: Oooh I like that hair Ocean.
[17:22] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): the braided one?
[17:22] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): I got a load the other day, I have been going though them
[17:22] Morsmordre Furman: Thank you Kev. I am going to compile a list of clothing stores and then make notes about which continents they serve best or exceptional outfits. No the one that was down.
[17:22] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): if you would want to, you can post the pictures int the forum as well
[17:23] Morsmordre Furman: I will upload them to my photobucket then, tomorrow. I also am going to offer anyone a copy of the class notes if they ask. Actually Astrid can I put them out by the free dresses?
[17:23] Giada Bedrosian: Nice..good idea
[17:24] Morsmordre Furman: I narrowed all the information I had to just our year, as best I could but there is always a bit more. IM me if you guys think of questions. I am an info geek, so if I do not know it I will find it.
[17:24] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): putting them by the dresses is an excellent idea
[17:24] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): that's a question for a Tri, you might be able to leave them in here though. I'll ask
[17:25] Morsmordre Furman: Either way I will post them on the forum, and am fine with that coming out of my prim count. Its 1.
[17:26] Morsmordre Furman: I really appreciate you all coming to my class, I hope you had fun and learned things. I will be doing theclass again (eventually) and as I mentioned I will expand into a few other classes. The two classes I have worked out almost to the presentation point are Hygiene and Grooming (also touches on hair) and then the Wedding Fashions class. Are there any classes you are interested in having that would enhance Immersion?
[17:26] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): also, you can leave the box i'm sure up where the freebies are
[17:26] Astrid Muircastle (astrid.floresby): NO ONE LEAVE YET!
[17:26] Morsmordre Furman: Okay, I will put it out there.
[17:26] Erik Godric: great class, thanks Mo
[17:27] Kev Silvansky (keighvin.silvansky): Thanks for the class Mo, could I suggest a class?
[17:27] Astrid: ((K.D. Silvansky is given 1000 experience points.))
[17:27] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): That is great Mors, I loved the class and will def try to attend the other
[17:27] Astrid: ((Erik Arnhvatr is given 1000 experience points.))
[17:27] Astrid: ((Dr. Morsmordre Furman is given 1000 experience points.))
[17:27] Erik GodricErik Godric does the happy dance
[17:27] Morsmordre Furman: Please do Kev, and its been a pleasure Erik. Ocean, I look forward to that and if you want to collaborate ont he Bondage class, let me know.
[17:27] Kev Silvansky (keighvin.silvansky): How to roleplay manners in 1890, what good manners where consider, and what was ...bad manners.
[17:27] Morsmordre Furman: Thank you Astrid.
[17:27] Astrid: ((Ocean Mortimer-Brown is given 1000 experience points.))
[17:27] Astrid: ((Dr. Giada Bedrosian is given 500 experience points.))
[17:28] Ocean (oceantide.leifstrom): thanks Astrid
[17:28] Morsmordre Furman: v
[17:28] Morsmordre Furman: Okay, I will add that to my list. -
Hello, for those of you who missed it here are the handouts for the class. These are available in world as well, in the Freebie section.
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Thanks Mors for a really good class it seems. I'll have to go to one the next time. This is a class I wanted to do as well.
One notation I wanted to make though... While Legacies has the veneer of Victorian London, its been corrupted and has many other cultures in it. From demons, vampires, ghost, fae, djinn... etc. They all have their own way of doing things. One suits them isn't necessarily Victorian. My perception is always that there is the attempt to placate the city by the superficial appearance of Victorian dress and morals but its still up to the player to determine how much. Though of course we do say that when in public they should maintain that seeming.
I've always looked at it in the way that pornography flourished in that time period even though it was denied just as much. That is one of the things I've always loved about the Victorian time period the dichotomy between the polar opposites it played at. The tech versus the pastoral, the chaste versus the prurient...
Anyway, this is must my perspective but don't ignore someone just because you don't approve of their dress. Roleplay it!
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Thank you for the fashion tips. Any excuse to go shopping!!! :D
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